Snape?!

[Minimy]

now, I could be wrong cuz it's some times since i read it, but the thing about Voldemort using Harrys blood didn'y that just make him able to toucht harry?
I thought the sheild would only work until he's an adult cuz I remember something about Dumbledore (or was it someone else?) telling harry that he HAD TO get back to the dursleys to remain the sheild until he became an adult, cuz then it wouldn't have any effect anyway....

[Ginny Weasly]

now, I could be wrong cuz it's some times since i read it, but the thing about Voldemort using Harrys blood didn'y that just make him able to toucht harry?

Yes, because then he was able to get through the shield, making the shield ineffective. So therefore, the shield is no longer there.

[0612]

Yes, Ginny's right. The protection that ends when Harry becomes an adult is the protection of the Dursley's home. When Harry is at the Dursleys' place, he cannot be harmed by Voldemort. This particular protection terminates when he's 17.

[harrypotterfan:)]

wait a second....I'm so lost....so Harry is going to lose his so called love shield when he turns of age which is 17....right?

[ronweazley122]

no.He is no longer protected by his mothers protection.Hes protected by staying at the dursleys.

[0612]

Hmm... Why do people get confused? That's so confusing.

Anyway, I'm gonna spell the whole thing out nice and clear, hopefully things will clear up.

Harry used to have TWO protections:

1) Mother's Love Shield
Caused by: Lily Potter's heroic sacrifice
Protection: Voldemort cannot touch Harry
Terminates: Voldemort uses Harry's blood to regenerate

2) Dursley's Home Shield
Caused by: Dumbledore casts a spell when Harry was delivered to the Dursley's
Protection: Harry cannot be harmed while under the Dursley's roof
Terminates: When Harry turns 17

I can't help if you still don't understand :P

[tannee]

snape is hundered percent bad i soppose.he did not hesitate a bit while killing dumbledore and he made that unbreakable vow with narcissa.But still he saved harry from umbridge and warned dumbledore of sirius getting caught.it could be a plan maybe we will have to wait for the book ithink.//

[harrypotterfan:)]

okay thanks 06１2

[cho chang]

SNAPE IS GOOD
Dumbledore isn't afraid to die, remember how he said "to a well organized mind, death is the next great adventure", in the first book? so Snape making the Unbreakable Vow could all be a part of the plan since Dumbledore wanted to die anyway. Dumbledore isn't begging for Snape to spare him when he said "Severus...please" at the end, because he certainly would not be the kind of person to beg for his life.

[ChoChangHP118]

i agree with cho chang...(username lol) dumbledore was saying the whole snape please thing cuz i think he wanted to die. it would allow whatever they were planning to take action. dumbledore said that so snape WOULD kill him. snape hesitated, so dumbly begged him to kill him.

oh and thanks zero, that cleared up all of my questions on that subject lol!

[ronweazley122]

ummm...okay. I'm not sure he wanted to die, because the way you two put it, it sounds like assisted suicide.I think that snape is undercover with the death eaters and makes the pact to keep undercover...dumbledore was telling him to kill him to save snape and malfoy...and snape kept his cover...

[natato]

I tihnk that Snape is a good guy.I had my arguments and some of them match but i think that these ones are better written.i think that everything below make a very good sense.


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Do I think Snape is really a good guy?   No.   In the words of my dear friends, the Marauders, he is a ugly git, an idiot, and a slimeball... with a large nose.   He is the biggest jerk to grace the halls of Hogwarts.   

Let's think about this.   He has hated Harry from day one simply because of his rivalry with Harry's father.   That is so childish.   He gives him punishments simply because he is Harry.   He treats students he doesn't like with spite and contempt.   He dishes out punishments unfairly.   He could be a really good teacher (look at how much Harry learns from the Half-Blood Prince) but instead chooses to favor his pet students and shun the others.   He is the ultimate git.

Now, the question you should have asked was this:   Where do you think Snape's loyalties lie—with the Death Eaters or the Order of the Phoenix?   That, my friend, is an excellent question; one that I would love to answer.

Severus Snape, in my humble opinion, is definitely loyal to the Order of the Phoenix.   There are too many things that simply don't make sense with him as a pure-in-heart Death Eater.   On the flip side, any argument that he is, in fact a Death Eater and a traitor to the Order is refutable.   Go ahead, I dare you to find something that I can't refute*.

Disclaimer: I have much more evidence than this, however, you asked me in the middle of end of term exams and since I assume you don't want to wait until I can put my full energy into it, I will give you main points.

Book 1.   Snape saves Harry at the Quidditch match.   Why would he do that?   Bellatrix asks a similar question in chapter 2 of book 6.   "But why did you keep [Harry] alive?"   Snape's reply was, "Have you not understood me?   It was only Dumbledore's protection that was keeping me out of Azkaban!   Do you disagree that murdering his favorite student might have turned him against me?"   But letting Quirrel jinx Harry's broom would not have looked badly on Snape.   None of the other teachers were doing anything about it.   Snape could have let Harry die right then and there.   But he didn't!   No.   Snape recognized what was happening and saved Harry's life.   He never had to do that.   "But Niffler... Snape then goes on to say, "But there was more to it than that.   I should remind you that when Potter first arrived at Hogwarts there were still many stories circulating about him, rumors that he himself was a great Dark wizard, which was how he had survived the Dark Lord's attack.   Indeed, many of the Dark Lord's old followers thought Potter might be a standard around which we could all rally once more.   I was curious, I admit it, and not all inclined to murder him the moment he set foot in the castle."   Yes, this is true.   Perhaps he wanted to save Harry to see if he was a more powerful dark wizard.   However, Snape counters that argument immediately.   "Of course, it became apparent to me very quickly that he had no extraordinary talent at all.   He has fought his way out of a number of tight corners by a simple combination of sheer luck and more talented friends.   He is mediocre to the last degree..."   Snape had come to this conclusion long before the Quidditch match.   He knew Harry was not a powerful dark wizard.   He had no reason to save him.   

Ok, really.   Why does anyone really belive Snape is a true Death Eater?   Sure, we all hate and despise him in every book.   He's a git.   Sure, we suspect him of trying to kill Harry at every turn.   He seems a likely suspect.   However, every time we have been wrong.   So why is everyone so sure of it now?   Simple.   He killed Dumbledore.   Seems reasonable logic.   So now for sake of time and space, we are going to fast forward to book six.   I argue that Dumbledore knew all along that Snape was going to kill him.   I think he planned for it.     I believe that it was an unfortunate twist that both Dumbledore and Snape had resigned themselves to.   Why?

[natato]

Dumbledore's trust.   For some reason, Dumbledore started trusting Snape before Voldemort fell.   Who knows why.   Seriously, the answer to that question alone would solve a whole lot of problems.   I believe it was on more than Snape's word alone.   Dumbledore knows that Snape is an excellent Occlumens and potions master.   He would not try to use Legilimency nor Veritiserum against Snape, just as he doesn't try to use it against Slughorn.   All the Snape-is-evil folks out there would argue that Dumbledore simply trusts too easily.   Snape came back with a good sob story and some sort of evidence and suddenly Dumbledore trusts him.   Besides, book six is all about showing how Dumbledore could be wrong and how when he makes mistakes, he makes big mistakes.   What if this was his biggest mistake yet?   

Sure, good arguments.   I don't agree.   Dumbledore trusts more than most and gives second chances to those that probably don't deserve it.   However, he is not an idiot.   Snape was a Death Eater.   He admitted it flat out.   Dumbledore may forgive and give him a second chance, hoping that Snape was telling the truth, but I don't see him trusting Snape on word alone.   For example.   Dumbledore went out and got Tom Riddle from the orphanage.   He saw the attitude Tom Riddle had adopted; he didn't like it.   While Tom Riddle won over all of the other teachers with his good looks and suave mannerisms, Dumbledore was not fooled.   Harry asked him why he never warned the other teachers.   Dumbledore explained that he hoped Tom would change.   He didn't want to taint Tom's reputation; he wanted to give Tom a second chance.   However, he never trusted him.   Tom did nothing that could be traced back to him.   He was everyone's favorite.   However, he still never won Dumbledore's trust.   Even before he became Lord Voldemort, back when he was still an "innocent" student, he was untrusted by Dumbledore.   So why then, would Dumbledore trust Snape—an admitted Death Eater—on his word alone?   No.   I don't believe it.   I believe that Dumbledore had to have used some sort of magic, something very powerful, to have fully given his trust to Snape.   Especially during the years that Harry was at school.   It was no secret that Snape hated Harry and did everything in his power to get him expelled from school.   Why would Dumbledore trust someone that is trying to remove the only person who can defeat Voldemort from the safest place he could possibly be?   He wouldn't—not unless there was some very good reason.   

Besides.   If you can't trust Dumbledore, who can you trust?

Defense Against the Dark Arts post.   Dumbledore knew that Voldemort had effectively jinxed the DADA job.   No teacher had ever lasted more than one year after Riddle had applied for it with Dumbledore.   Ever.   Snape did not know this fact.   Otherwise, why would he have kept applying for it?   He wanted to stay at Hogwarts.   He told Bellatrix that multiple times.   He had a good job, why would he want to leave?   He believed Dumbledore did not give him the position because Dumbledore feared it would put him too close with the Dark Arts and tempt him back over.   Dumbledore, however, had different reasons.   He wanted Snape to stay at the school.   He needed him close so that he could do his duty as spy for the Order.   If Dumbledore let Snape have the DADA job, he knew something would happen and Snape would have to leave.

Which brings us to another point.   Book six is a critical point for the Order.   The wizarding world has finally admitted the return of Voldemort.   The Death Eaters are back in action—trying to steal the prophecy.   Now, more than ever, Dumbledore needs Snape to be a spy.   Why then, does Dumbledore appoint Snape to the position, knowing that because of it, Snape would have to leave the school at the end of term?   It makes no logical sense.   Wouldn't he want him to stay close with the Order?

Unless... Dumbledore already knew that Snape would have to kill him.   If Snape killed him, there is no way he would stay at the school.   So why not finally give him the position he wanted so badly for so long?   Some would argue that it was so Harry could take O.W.L. level Potions.   But really, why go to such an extreme?   I'm pretty sure that Dumbledore could have simply told Snape to let Harry in the class, and Snape would have let him (admittedly, quite grudgingly).   No, I don't think Dumbledore would have gone to such great measures simply to ensure Harry's admittance into a Potions class.   I think he did it, knowing that Snape would have to leave anyway.   So why not let him fill the impossible-to-fill position and make him happy in the process?

[natato]

The Unbreakable Vow.   Now here we enter murky territory.   This is where a lot of people sway over to the dark side.   Literally.   Instead of arguing little bits and pieces, I'm going to give you my theory as to what happened.

Snape came over to Dumbledore.   Insert some powerful magical something here that caused Dumbledore to trust him here.   Snape became a double agent, spying on Voldemort for Dumbledore.   From this moment on, Snape knew he was in dangerous territory.   Voldemort fell.   Dumbledore never believed, even for a moment, that Voldemort was really gone.   He always believed that Voldemort would rise again.   Surely, he and Snape had some sort of plan for when Voldemort did rise again.   Surely that plan included something that allowed Snape to do whatever necessary to convince Voldemort and the Death Eaters to believe that he was, in fact, a Death Eater.   Especially since he lived in a life of relative luxury after Voldemort fell.   He had to do things, powerful magical things, to convince them that he was still evil at heart.   While Dumbledore trusts people, Voldemort does not.   He was not going to take Snape's word for it.   He needed proof.   Dumbledore and Snape had 13 years to come up with a plan—something that would convince Voldemort.   We don't know what that was, but apparently it worked.   He still had to keep up appearances, though.   How would it have looked had he not made the Unbreakable Vow?   Bellatrix would have confirmed her suspicions and probably pulled Narcissa over with her.   No.   He had to make the Vow.   You'll notice he hesitated.   I think it was because he didn't want to do it, but he knew that he had to.   

He then came back and told Dumbledore what he had done.   Dumbledore, not wanting to turn Draco into a murder, and not wanting Snape to die, told Snape that he had to do it.   He had to kill Dumbledore.     Snape, of course, didn't like this idea.   He didn't want to kill the one person in the world that trusted him completely.   Especially since, by killing him, Snape would lose all trust from anyone one else in the Order.   But alas, it had to be done; he agreed to do it.   


Partway into the semester, Hagrid overheard Dumbledore and Snape arguing in the forest.   "Well — I jus' heard Snape sayin' Dumbledore took too much fer granted an' maybe he — Snape — didn' wan' ter do it anymore — ... It sounded like Snape was feelin' a bit overworked, tha's all — anyway, Dumbledore told him flat out he'd agreed ter do it an' that was all ther was to it.   Pretty firm with him."   As you read the book initially, you probably came to the same conclusion Harry did—that Snape wasn't doing his job investigating the opal necklace in Slytherin.   However, I don't think so.   I think he was talking about trying to get information out of Malfoy and having to kill Dumbledore.   We've already discussed why Snape wouldn't want to kill Dumbledore, so it's obvious as to why this would be a strain on him.   At a junction like this, wouldn't it just be easier to die?   It looks as if Snape is starting to feel the strain of it and Dumbledore is telling him to hold strong.   Snape agreed to do it, and that was the end of it.   


... Oh, and I'm out of time.   Sorry dear Moon Lizard friend, but my end of term exams call.   Studying must be done.   I hope that I at least gave you a firm base on which to consider this view.   I stand firm that Snape is loyal to the Order of the Phoenix.   I'll admit, after my first read, I had been iffy.   My initial reaction was that Snape was good.   I had my reasonings, too.   But then I heard some really good arguments as to why he was bad.   I was swayed.   I was confused.   I just reread all 6 books this semester.   (Or, rather, listened to them all.)   I am now convinced that my gut instinct was correct.   Snape is not loyal to the Death Eaters; Snape is loyal to the Order of the Phoenix.   Somehow, he is going to play a huge role in book 7—in helping Harry.   I don't know how, but he is going to do it.   True, Harry will never trust Snape again, but you can't really fault him for that.

ּI suppose we'll only know the real answer in July.   Perhaps I'll eat my words.   Perhaps I'll gloat in triumph.   But for the information given thus far, I stand firm.   I hate Snape.   I think he's a git, an idiot, and a slimeball.   Not to mention the biggest jerk to roam the face of the earth.   But I still trust him.






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Snape is not a stupid man. On the contrary, he has proven himself to be quite bright over the course of the series. He arrived on the rooftop, saw Dumbledore defenseless, and Snape saw not one, but two broomsticks--- just as Draco Malfoy did.
Malfoy stepped forwards, glancing around quickly to check that he and Dumbledore were alone. His eyes fell upon the second broom.
"Who else is here?"
Snape is a smarter guy than Malfoy -- two broomsticks and only one rider? I contend that Snape knew or suspected right away that Harry Potter was somewhere nearby concealed underneath his Invisibility Cloak. With this information, Dumbledore’s pleading makes more sense. Dumbledore is not pleading for his own life; he is pleading for Snape to save Harry’s life! And Snape does exactly that by hurrying the Death Eaters off the rooftop immediately.
Harry felt as though he, too, were hurtling through space; it had not happened...it could not have happened...
"Out of here, quickly," said Snape.
He seized Malfoy by the scruff of the neck and forced him through the door ahead of the rest..."
In fact, Snape saves Harry’s life again near Hagrid’s house. A Death Eater has apparently used the Cruciatus Curse on Harry.
But before he could finish this jinx, excruciating pain hit Harry; he keeled over in the grass, someone was screaming, he would surely die of this agony, Snape was going to torture him to death or madness-
"No!" roared Snape’s voice and the pain stopped as suddenly as it had started; Harry lay curled on the dark grass, clutching his wand and panting; somewhere above him Snape was shouting, "Have you forgotten our orders? Potter belongs to the Dark Lord -- we are to leave him! Go! Go!"


& one more:

. When Flitwick arrives at Snape’s office to tell Snape about the Death Eaters' attack, Snape stupefies Flitwick and encounters Hermione and Luna outside his office and tells them to help Flitwick. Here is Remus Lupin’s comment in Chapter 29:
"It’s not your fault," said Lupin firmly. "Hermione, had you not obeyed Snape and got out of the way, he would have killed you and Luna."
This begs the question: If Snape is a Death Eater through and through, why didn’t he kill Hermione? This encounter was a perfect opportunity for Snape to dispatch the annoying, know-it-all Mudblood, whom he has hated since Book 1, with a quick Avada Kedavra.

[harrypotterfan:)]

Do I think Snape is really a good guy?   No.   In the words of my dear friends, the Marauders, he is a ugly git, an idiot, and a slimeball... with a large nose.   He is the biggest jerk to grace the halls of Hogwarts.  

Let's think about this.   He has hated Harry from day one simply because of his rivalry with Harry's father.   That is so childish.   He gives him punishments simply because he is Harry.   He treats students he doesn't like with spite and contempt.   He dishes out punishments unfairly.   He could be a really good teacher (look at how much Harry learns from the Half-Blood Prince) but instead chooses to favor his pet students and shun the others.   He is the ultimate git.

((I laughed on these....LOL....))